Concern regarding Yahoo VOWS site

[tchokoev]

I apologize ahead of time for this long posting, but I feel as though I need to share this information regarding the Yahoo VOWS group site (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VOWS_HomeownersVoices/)
One of the motto’s/mission of this site, which is posted on their home page is “Our mission is to share factual information.” Warning: this is not true! There is a file on the Yahoo site in which I was personally named by an individual who does not know me, has never met me, nor never spoken to me whether via email, phone, telegram, etc., that is full of false information. There were false accusations towards me, and also towards the Queens of the Springs (which I am a part of). After reading this file, I felt as though I had been personally attacked and I wanted to respond to defend myself and also ask this individual to please refrain from making any further attacks or false accusations against me or the Queens. Now, as on this website and the VOWS website, there are moderators, which I am in no way complaining about the existence of moderators on any site. The reason for me posting this here is because I feel that I am unable to post my feelings, thoughts, opinions and concerns on the Yahoo site as in the end when my message did finally get posted, it was revised and edited. I was truly surprised that my posting got edited by a moderator, especially after reading this one user’s comments on the Yahoo group about this website, “His [NFL Guy’s] site is totally censured... Posts will be deleted at will or modified. Don’t even waste your time looking there!” Well, in my opinion – the Yahoo site is even more censored than this site and the VOWS site combined, again, this is my opinion, not an attack on that site, the creators of that site, or the moderators of that site.

Here's what I submitted to be posted on that site (posts are reviewed by the moderators before they can actually be seen by everyone else):

“This is in response to the link that Mrs. Cara Campbell posted on this site with all the email correspondences she had between Peter and Lara Lee. I do not appreciate you accusing me of being offensive and personally attacking people on the VOWS website! You do not know me and have absolutely no justification in what you said!!! Those who do know me know that is not in my nature, nor something I would do!! By sending that email and posting it on this site you have just personally attacked me and I do not appreciate it nor will I stand for it!!! Please refrain from making any accusations against me in the future.

As for your accusation (again false) that the Queens postings about patting each other on our backs and how we must have gotten that from LaraLee -- again you are falsely accusing people based on what??? A Hunch? Have you not looked at the some of the posts on this site -- the one attached below in particular? Again, please refrain from personally attacking me or the Queens
From: "outoftimeworkinout" <mar1for1@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2005 6:44 pm
Subject: So fed up
I am so fed up with these people on the other website attacking any one who asks questions. It sure makes it seem like there is a conspiracy over there. Especially all of the People who have to pat each other on the back over and over again. I bet once this all shakes out we will find some people who will have to answer for their actions and I hope it is soon.



Now here is what was actually posted after one of the moderators edited it:

“This is in response to the file that Mrs. Cara Campbell posted on this site with all the email correspondences she had between Peter and Lara Lee. I do not appreciate you accusing me of being offensive
and personally attacking people on the VOWS website!

THIS POST WAS MODERATORED BY A1BADAPPLE_2005. AS A MODERATOR I WILL NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO POST INFORMATION ABOUT ATTACKING ANYONE ELSE PERIOD. ALSO THIS SITE IS FOR RESIDENTS OF THE VILLIAGES OF WOODLAND SPRINGS ONLY. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AND AS ALWAYS THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT.”



Well, I did contact this moderator via email inquiring for an explanation of his editing. Here is the response that I received:

kmt4573

I have reread the entire post. Cara was stating opinion about how she thinks or feels. You can not make everything said a personal attack. Quite frankly your attitude about the entire post seems very hostile. The very thing that we and many others are against not only from this Yahoo group but the VOWS website as well. You make the statement they do not know you, then it can not be a personal attack.

May I suggest if you have a problem with someone please address it to them directly. Cara is a great person and this issue probably can be cleared up with just talking with her. The comment about being a VOWS resident will apply to every post I have to Moderate.



Now, I have not sent any further reply to this moderator as of yet, although his reply makes no sense to me for the following reasons:
1. “Cara was stating opinion about how she thinks or feels.” By stating her opinion and how she thinks or feels in her statement in which she named me in particular by name, that is what was offensive and attacking me as a person. Voicing thoughts can also be offensive and personal attacks, even if it is just her opinion of how she thinks…
2. “You can not make everything said a personal attack.” I wasn’t making everything she said a personal attack – only the 2 items that I specified in my original posting.
3. “Quite frankly your attitude about the entire post seems very hostile.” I was not hostile then, nor am I now – I was simply defending myself, the Queens and asking her to refrain from making any further false accusations. Also, does this moderator realize that typing in all capitals is considered yelling, and that I consider a bit of a hostile attitude.
4. “You make the statement they do not know you, then it can not be a personal attack.” You do not need to know someone personally to attack them or their nature. All the reporters in the world who write articles about stars and make up stories about them, do you think they personally know these stars?? No, but it still is a personal attack on that individual, as were Cara’s statements about me as they were attacking me as a person and my nature.
5. “May I suggest if you have a problem with someone please address it to them directly.” Why is this advice being given to me?? Shouldn’t it have gone to Cara first? She has never come to me with the apparent problem she has towards me…Was her posting edited as much as mine? No, her’s was not edited at all, yet, in my opinion, is much more hostile and is full of false accusations.

Again, I apologize for posting a small novel, but I wanted to post my opinions, thoughts and feelings on a VOWS site that is not “totally censored” and people are able to speak openly (with reasonable moderation). Even though I am only voicing my opinions here just as (to quote the Yahoo moderator again) “Cara was stating opinion about how she thinks or feels” I am pretty confident that this posting would be thoroughly edited if submitted to be posted on the Yahoo site considering it has much more information in it than the first one.

If you sat and read through this whole schpeel (is that how that’s spelled???), I hope I didn’t totally bore you, but I do thank you for listening to me with, hopefully, an open and fair mind.

[rbprovo]

You all know that I agree with everything Katina has said. My name was also used in a derogatory manner and I also do not appreciate it and would like it to stop.

[nurseypoo5]

i submitted something simple and it never got posted. hmmmm wonder why??

I'm a little shocked that anyone would post emails that were sent in confidence or privately without permission. As for talking about Ms Campbell at parties, the only time I her name MIGHT have come up is the first party, we asked if anyone knew her(that was in October)....then to top it off that night someone (who is still a queen) did mention having met her and stated that she seemed nice. I have never heard her discussed since then, we have asked about dad tho...hehe I can assure anyone reading this that the queens just have fun, we dont sit around and talk about others. We dont conive, plot or plan bad things! We usually have stories, laughs, jokes etc...its not all about he said she said stuff...i promise! This group of women are AWSOME. If any of us needed any little thing the queens answer in a heart beat. We are here for each other and that feels great!

Nice letter Kat, very well said. Laralee has never ever forwarded anyones private and personal emails to me or anyone i know either! Nor would I personally ever ask her too. That steps out of bounds of friendship to put anyone in that type of position.

[Michele Stogsdill]

Even if someone had a beef with an individual, that is their beef. This isn't high school where one of the girls in the group says "I don't like that pink sweater she is wearing" and she says "let's not be friends with her" and all the other girls agree are now mad but never even saw the sweater. I don't know of any beefs with anyone, nor do I care. All I ever wanted to do was meet people and that is why we started this group. We have loving husbands, siblings, parents and kids and we share our ups and downs, but mostly ups. We mostly like to laugh. There are so many girls in this group that have such a loving heart and GREAT sense of humor (my favorite quality) They can say pickle a certain way and you laugh your butt off. Let's just stop all this nonsense. Even if you don't like someone or a a group, do you have to publicly state it? The only thing I have commented on is attitudes and poor choices of words from people but I have never said so in so is a horrible person. I have tried to defend myself and explain myself when I have been taken the wrong way. I have also said many a times that people sometimes write differently than they are in person. Some write like they have this great personality and they are Dud's, some write mean spirited but they are sweet in person. Let's just be careful what writing style we use. I moved from up North to get away from the "Mean People" Texas is supposed to be the state of the "Big Heart" Let's start this New Year off by just being nice to each other. My faith in people usually proves that the good always prevails, it's just hard to drag it out of people sometimes. I know there are people out there that are up to no good but let's give each other the benefit of the doubt and believe that it may be YOUR perception and not the truth. Maybe someone might just need a hug some days, I know I do right now after reading all this lately.

Have a MERRY HANICHRISMAKWANZICA or whatever it is!!!

[guest]

The queens have posted on this site that they do not believe they have made offensive posts. Just wanted to clarify it for them since they have forgotten what they wrote:

Jeesh AKA Nurseypoo AKA MEMEME AKA Liz Bateman:

RE: Woodland Springs Foundation 9:44 a.m.

I read this. I understand that you said you didn't imply it (even thou you did clearly imply it) But you also need to realize that is not their only jobs.

I don't like our SBB either, but your constant complaining got you banned on the other website and many dislike you in our community. For all I know you brought down my property values. How does that make you feel? So what if you want to gripe, we all gripe. You take it to a new level. You constantly try to stir up crap and cause a friction that didn't need to exist. You love to fight, and argue. Someone would come on the website with a question and you would turn and twist until you egged on an argument.

Are you blind to it all? I feel sincerely sorry for you if you are. I would much rather know you enjoyed the fighting and that you weren't really just that hateful.

MEMEME AKA Liz Bateman also made deragatory posts concerning Colleen Demel, accusing her of going to a car dealership and Albertsons to discredit Pauline and to get rid of the Fall Festival donations. That was an out and out lie.

The other queens (only a couple) come in and back her up each time and make rude comments of their own, but they come back and act offended because we "don't know them and have never spoken to them." Their words are clear enough. NFL guy has stated that he would not allow any personal attacks on his website, but he did allow the 2 attacks I just noted, as well as the recent one by tchokoev.

There are several more posts that can be quoted by queens that are deragatory in nature and of personal attacks. This is Christmas Eve and I don't have the time or wish to do this today.

Everyone is missing the point of the emails between Cara, Lara Lee, and Peter STamps. The point is that the moderators are not following their own rules and making the rules up as they go along. ONe says it takes a majority to ban, the other says it has to be unanimous.

[LaraLee]

It has to be unanimous in order to ban and all the mods agree on that. That rule was put into place shortly after the new moderators were put into place. We made this particular ban using majority rules but immediately saw that banning was a huge thing to do to a user. We then all came to the conclusion that someone could only be banned after a unanimous vote. We then revoted, it became a unanimous vote and the poster was banned. Very simple. I believe that Peter and I have tried numerous times to make this clear. We do not make up rules as we go along. Because this is a dynamic world we live in, sometimes we have to re-think our rules, policies, and laws in order to keep things fair and just. Your federal gov't does this, your local govt does this, the businesses you patronize do this. It is only prudent for us to review these rules and regulations and make changes as necessary.
As you can read from my emails that were posted on the yahoo site, I have tried very hard to offer a time, place and friendly venue in order to answer any questions that you may have pertaining to my job as moderator. You have decided not to take me up on my offer but continue to post your gripes in a nonproductive manner.

I think that you are missing the point.

Lara Lee

[guest]

You are a HOMEOWNER just like all the rest of us, nothing more.

[Michele Stogsdill]

Dear Guest - I believe those posts were made by individuals not the "Queens". If they were made by the "Queens", we would have all signed it. Please refrain from grouping your people. If you disagree with an individual that is fine but to bring 35 women in your petty stuff is silly.

[Michele Stogsdill]

I meant to add - In other words, Get over it already!!!

[Lara Lee]

Guest,
We have a difference of opinion. I am a homeowner who has volunteered to be a moderator on the website. That's what makes you and me different. Notice that I said different, not better. By taking that volunteer position I have a set of responsibilities that go with it. One is to vote on whether to ban a user for not following the rules. I did my job...I'm sorry that makes you angry. By participating in the forum, you have a set of responsibilities that you must follow. If you don't the end result will be banning. Following the forum rules is very simple...I'm not sure why users have difficulty following them.

You have every right to start your own website and run it however you see fit. In fact, I remember the developer committing to doing just that. I'm sure that he'll need moderators for that forum. You should take a stab at it.

I assure you that if I wanted to participate on your site, I would follow your rules. If I didn't like your rules, I would not participate. What good would it do for me to post questions/comments just to be contrary? I can get my ideas across without being meanspirited, rude and unkind. Unfortunately, not all people can and that's why we need moderators.

I hope that the joys of Christmas overtake your heart today and bring you peace.

Lara Lee

[rbprovo]

I have not come to the decision to post on this tread lightly. It seems to me, and only me, that I must state a few things...and then, I must let all of this go.
I am the first one to admit to my personality flaws. I am excitable and say things that I later regret. I have spent my share of time apologizing.....I am far from perfect. At the homeowners meeting, I got excited and in a bit of a shouting match with Merhad. For those of you who attended, I was embarrassed after it happened and as soon as the meeting ended, I went to him and apologized. I know when I have crossed a line, and I generally try not to and when I do, I try to mitigate the damages. With that being said, I really think that I am not alone. We have all said and done things both in our personal life and in our public life that we wish we could undo.....
To attempt to "shame " someone on this forum with a cut & paste option is not right. As I said, I am not perfect, but for the most part I try. I know Nursey, and I must say, she is not a mean spirited person. Her heart is in the right place and she really is a whole lot of fun to be around. I also know Katina, and she is also not mean spirited or unkind and also a whole lot of fun. I understand that "guest" also know Ms. Cambell and feels that she also has personality traits that are being overlooked. I don't know her so I can't speak to them, but I will also say I understand the need to defend.
I know this has been a long post, filled with rambling, but in summary may I say, we do not claim to be perfect. I will say, I have said things that I regret, I have done things that I regret......I think the saying is "Those without sin,cast the first stone." I am not without sin, but I know these ladies, they are good people, so am I. In the spirit of the season, can't this be put to rest?
So, that is it...Happy New Year!

[guest]

;DEveryone have a very happy happy New Year! May God's peace and love be with you throughout the New Year! And may our homeowner dues not rise anymore and may gas prices go down!

[tchokoev]

Halleluiah!!!!!!!!!!